7/31/2019 Okay. I wrote much of this below and researched for more time than I care to admit before finally finding my current, awesome vet that doesn’t mind going outside of the box to try and find the answers. We will be trying a new medicine with all of our puppies (people approved) in hopes that we can get a handle on puppies going home still carrying Giardia. I Praise God for our veterinarian and look forward to a long and fruitful relationship producing healthy puppies and screening our parents for health and sound geneitics. We don’t give up….no excuses. Reflected below is NO EXCUSE….just tons of research and frustration. Never give up! Thank you! Lawpdoodle K9 Manor
3/29/2021
Our puppies' area is cleaned daily with Bleach and KennelSol. All toys are bedding are washed daily in our nursery washer/dryer with bleach and replaced daily upon cleaning of their area. Puppies are bathed post-weaning and during treatment with Secnidazole, a prescription through our vet. They never set foot outside to avoid possible contamination, which still leaves us stumped as to where it originates. Dishes are cleaned and disinfected daily as well. Secnidazole is more effective at killing Giardia, but the tests still may show positive for the Antigen. Not active. Vets should not be treating, except maybe with 5 - 10 days of Panacur, if Antigen only. Please be sure if your vet does the test that they tell you whether the "positive" reading is the Antigen only or if cysts are active. Most accurate tests are sent to a lab for the Elisa test. Our years of experience with fighting/trying to eliminate this has taught us that over treatment (especially with Flagyl) is compounding the problem. In my breeding groups, I am finally seeing that some breeders' vets are waking up to the benefits of Secnidazole. I had several vets turn me down in looking into it in past years until my current, awesome vet. Thank you!
Below is an example of our DAILY cleaning routine that I took in sequence a while back. However, PicCollage did not keep it in the exact sequence, and I’m not sure how to correct it. The third picture, first row, is what their box looks like in the morning before chores (puppies have already been moved to the holding pen, shown in the 4th photo to the right, first row.) The holding pen is also disinfected between litters each day.
1. I remove all bedding, toys and dishes.
2. Dishes are washed with bleach and Dawn. Fresh water and fresh food. (in this case, I’ve placed their fresh food in their holding pen to keep them quieter while I’m cleaning.
3. I dump the sawdust (Equine pine pellets disolved from their waste)
4. I take the potty pan to the wash tub.
5. I sweep up and rid their area of all sawdust and waste.
6. I have a fresh mop head and bucket of water that includes KennelSol and Clorox and mop the entire floor and walls.
7. I dry with a clean towel.
8. Potty pan is washed with Bleach and dried with a clean towel.
9. I replace the potty pan to their clean play box and fill with fresh Equine Pine Pellets
10. I replace any bedding with fresh clean bedding (we have a washer/dryer dedicated to the nursery).
11. I replace the toys with clean toys that have also been washed in our W/D.
12. I then bring the happy puppies back to their clean play box. It is amazing to hear them play and how their temperament changes when their box is clean…but it doesn’t stop them from making a new mess for me to have to start all over again from the top.
Please review this link/article written by a veterinarian. We all know we need to take much of what is found on the internet with a grain of salt, especially when it comes to health care, animals or human. This is to me one of the most common sense approach articles written about Giardia.
http://www.doggedblog.com/doggedblog/2010/06/how-to-treat-or-not-treat-giardia-in-your-dog.html
BELOW IS AN EXCHANGE OF CORRESPONDENCE WITH ONE OF OUR RECENT CUSTOMERS. SHARED WITH THEIR PERMISSION.
Willy’s Family email March 16, 2019
Good morning Tina. I hope all is well with you and your family. First, let me thank you for giving us this wonderful puppy. He's wonderful and were enjoying every minute being with him.
The main reason for this e-mail so early in the morning is Willy (Shelia and Ram) is suffering from a bad case of what we think is Giardia. His stool tested positive for it. We have taken him to the emergency room 3 times . We even switched vets, thinking maybe he wasn't getting the proper care with the first one. Once he's on the medication (Pancur, Metronidazole) that the vet prescribes, within 1-2 days Willy starts having intense diarrhea, becomes very lethargic and quite sick. He's only 5 months old and this has happened 4 times.
Have you experienced this with any of the other puppies in recent litters? We have read your postings regarding Giardia and we understand how common it is. We are very concerned and respect your opinion.
We look forward to hearing from you and thanks in advance for your time.
Best,
Jessica, Michael and Willy
Lawpdoodle/My Reply, March 16, 2019
Good morning, Michael, Jessica and Willy!
I need to clarify by your email……he is getting diarrhea when being treated or prior to being treated? Sheila’s litter was one of the first litters I upped our protocol out of frustration, and so far so good with Willy’s siblings. Puppies are more prone to the effects of parasites while their immune system is still developing. I fear our puppies are being over-treated for things they have fought off naturally for centuries?
As some of my information states, we never had issues with “chronic” Giardia until they began the regular practice of the Elisa test. In house tests seldom caught it, and therein, puppies were not overly treated and developed their own immunity to fight it off as they mature. My goal is to minimize it, and the symptoms, before they leave here.
If he is not showing symptoms, even if the test comes back positive, do not treat! Metronidazole can do damage to their intestines over an extended period of time. By what you said below, he is getting sick during treatment? That tells me his body has had enough. I fear this over treatment, like with antibiotics, is beginning to create a resistance of the parasite to the medications. All while hurting our puppies.
I know this link is on my page, and you may have already read it, but I believe it is the most common sense article about fighting Giardia. It was written by a veterinarian.
If he is, as you say, getting sicker with treatment…..I would stop immediately and see how he does? Also, Giardia is easily eradicated with every day household cleaners. Regular bathing will help as well. We are now using a special shampoo for our moms and puppies called ChlorConazole, recommended by RevivalAnimal.com . We bath moms with it prior to coming to the nursery, and all puppies are bathed post weaning and as we begin the Fenbendazole/Metronidazole treatment, and again before they go home. Fenbendazole (Panacur) is fairly safe with few side effects. It is the Metronidazole that can be a detriment during extended use.
Please keep me posted. As he gets older, the symptoms should be alleviated. I felt like my kids lived at the pediatricians office the first 5 years of their lives. After that, their ability to catch every bug and ear infection seemed to all but disappear.
Willy’s Family’s reply, March 16, 2019
HI Tina - Thanks so much for getting back to us so quickly. To answer your question he had a loose stool prior to treatment but NOT diarrhea. His symptoms intensified on the medication. We happen to agree with you because he was happy and thriving pre-medication, eating great , putting on weight, .... its the drugs that appear to make him sick! That being said we are stopping the treatment. Will take the advise on the frequent baths and be diligent on the cleaning.
We love him so and seeing him like this is heartbreaking. We will keep you updated and again thank you for support.
Jessica, Michael and WIlly
Follow up from Willy’s Family, April 25, 2019
Hi Tina.- Just a follow up about Willy after our difficult incident a few months ago. We stopped all medication as wa suggested by you and also followed our gut instincts. Weeks went by without incident and today Willy tested negative for all parasites - no Giardia. Thank you as always for your sound advice and thank you for our beautiful puppy. He has exceeded our expectations,
Best
Jessica and Michael Schaier
My Reply, April 25, 2019
Thank you!!!! That is awesome to hear. I so much appreciate you following up with me on this. It helps to have a true testimony to what I’ve been trying to tell so many for so long. So glad Willy is doing so well! Do you mind if I use your testimony in your experience with Giardia treatment?
Again, thank you so much!
Willy’s Family’s reply, April 25, 2019
Yes, please do!
Here is a great 4 part very informative video (each part fairly short) of Dr. B from Revival Animal about Parasite Control:
https://www.revivalanimal.com/pet-health/managing-parasites-in-dogs-1/learning-center
Below written by Tina Law July 9, 2016 as an email to a customer. My thoughts for sometime in words to help better understand our experience with this nagging and common milady:
If your puppy is non-symptomatic, do not continue treatment. It only compounds the issue, as we've seen on a few occasions. It has been noted that Giardia can still be seen on lab tests for as much as a month, sometimes longer, following treatment, but does not mean it has not been successfully treated.
There is a new protocol being practiced by veterinarians called the Elisa test which requires sending out the stool sample of the dog to confirm Giardiasis. In other words, it is seldom diagnosed successfully in-house unless there is a huge population. It is very difficult to detect by standard floating procedures.
Due to the rise among breeders being told puppies are infected with Giardiasis, I'm beginning to believe most dogs carry it, and most adults are unaffected by it?. Giardia is everywhere in the environment. There is no way to avoid contact with it unless you live in a glass bubble. I always loved that Trifexis commercial with the dog playing from a glass tube. So true. Parasites can never be eliminated, only controlled.
As a rule, unless our puppies stay with us for an extended period of time (seldom anymore), they never leave the nursery until they go home, so they are never exposed to the outdoors where Giardia exists along with other common parasites. Mom is weaned off of them around 6 weeks or as soon as she seems disinterested in going into the puppy box to nurse. Once separated from mom, (all adults who are regularly treated with our pack to control parasites) we begin a proactive de-worming treatment that also addresses Giardia on the puppies with several consecutive days of Febendazole. If they actually show symptoms that are suspicious, we treat with metronidazole as well, all under the guidance of our veterinarians.
Their area is scrubbed daily with bleach and all bedding and toys are changed daily. We have a separate washer/dryer in our nursery just for this purpose. This has always been our protocol. We also train them to a puppy litter box to minimize treading through their own waste on a day to day basis. It makes our daily cleaning routine a little easier as well, but it is all removed and dissinfected every day. Again, they have never been outside if they are going home around 8 weeks of age to minimize exposure. The only exposure they have to outdoors is through their mom. Although they've been de-wormed at least twice from the age of 2 weeks before mom leaves, our protocol with Fenbendazole is not begun until they are completely weaned.
Since this seems to be a more recent diagnosed ailment on a more regular basis (we've been breeding for 8 1/2 years and I also follow breeding groups through social media), I'd be curious to see the veterinarian associations recommend random lab tests of various house dogs throughout the country that play outdoors, especially those that seldom if ever go to the vet in their lifetime and whether symptomatic or not, and see the results?
In the meantime, we will continue our protocol of proactive treatment to minimize Giardia and its symptoms. I kind of see it as what I dealt with when my children were babies. They caught ever bug/virus that came their way, and ear infections were constant. It seemed as if we lived at the pediatric's office at times? Then, as their immune system developed as they grew, their frequencies of illness drastically dropped. Today they are healthy, my son a recent graduate with his MBA, married 3 years and expecting our first grandchild in October, and my sweet little pixie girl, a student at WVU, almost 22 years old, is getting married to her soulmate this September. Busy year head for us.
Some vets will agonize and dramatize over Giardia and Coccidia among other ailments, and then we have our down to earth country farm vets that are more realistic. Nonetheless, unless they are employed by these fast growing corporate vet clinic enterprises that are putting our small practice vets out of business and “anti-breeder” agendas, I seldom doubt their expertise.